Template talk:PD-Faroe stamps

Faroe stamps and copyrights were discussed at the Village Pump in November 2004. This is the full text. (here) Thuresson 06:52, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) (link updated) --MGA73 (talk) 19:02, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Copyrights of Stamps/Screenshots/currency/ etc

At the commons we cannot keep copyrighted material. Are stamps/screenshots/currency etc. copyrighted? I found the following info:

• All stamps & currency old enough for expired copyrights can be kept.
• US stamps before 1976 (1978?) are public domain 1976 1978
• UK stamps are copyrighted [1]
• Canada has copyright on their stamps [2]
• Belarus stamps copyrighted since 1992 [3]
• Screenshots of free software may be free (i.e. software licensed under the GFDL or similar)
• Currency may be limited due to counterfeit laws

We have a nice collection of Category:Stamps, especially Category:PD Faroe stamps thanks to User:Arne List. We also have a nice collection of screenshots. I don't like to bring this issue up, but we would have to face it sooner or later. Any comments about how to handle this problem? -- Chris 73 14:10, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hello, this is no problem, if you look at the disclaimers here: faroestamps.fo and faroeartstamps.fo ("Site info, Contact" says, that even the texts are free for use). I have also a written permission from the Faroese Post's philatelistic office, dating from 19 April 2004:

Dear Mr. Arne List
You are welcome to copy our stamps as "public domains".
Kind regards
Knud Wacher
*******
Postverk Føroya, Philatelic Office, FO-159 Tórshavn, Faroe Islands Tel. +298 346200, Tel. direct +298 346210, Fax +298 346201
E-mail: filateli@postur.fo, Website: http://www.stamps.fo

:-) Arne List 15:13, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I looked at [4], and was dismayed to see this seemingly contradictory (as we currently see it) statement:

The texts and graphics on Faroestamps are in Public Domain and can be copied and cited, as long as Faroestamps is mentioned as a source. The texts and graphics may not be used for commercial purposes, or mechanical reproduction without permission from the Faroese Philatelic Office. (emphasis added)

So the concept of PD here is not quite the PD understood here; it's more like Creative Commons' cc-nc-sa (Non-commercial, Share-alike) license. Which makes me wonder which concept of PD Knud Wacher of Postverk Føroya (I assume this is a government agency) had in mind. It seems that in some parts of the world the "public" in PD is understood to mean "the public" excluding commercial interests. See also [5].

A-giâu 18:24, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The comment by Knud Wacher conflicts a bit with the info from the link. However, since Knud explicitly gave permission as PD, I would take him by his word and ignore the link. It would also be good to state the PD release by Knud on the stamp image pages or article pages. Looking at the number of stamps, this may even allow for a new "Faroestamps " tag that contains the PD tag. -- Chris 73 06:42, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Furthermore, Knud knows very well, what I am doing in the German category Färöer, as well, as the webmaster of faroestamps.fo (some of the German texts there were translated by me from English, so we have a cooperation since many month). The latter (Anker Eli Petersen, who also designed the maps like of Streymoy) made that disclaimer just to ensure, that a certain terror, which was tried by a nice guy in German Wikipedia against me, to denounce me as criminal after I published a by-myself-reviewed and another by-myself-translated free text by-himself (Anker Eli), stops. But for sure a special Postverk Føroya tag would be a nice idea. :Nobody called Arne List a criminal !

Regarding A-giâu: Yes Postverk Føroya is a state-run institution by the Faroese self-government. It will be privatised. For further reading: faroeislands.org.uk the news alsmost at the bottom there. Arne List 17:24, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I made up a tag: Template:Faroe stamps. Can we agree in it, and I show it Postverk Føroya again, and they write HERE, that this is correct so? :-) Arne List 17:43, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have changed the tag a bit, but I am perfectly happy with the current copyright status of the stamps as explained above. Thanks for the good work in getting permission! -- Chris 73 00:57, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Arne, thanks for the clarification. It's reassuring that both Knud and Peterson are aware of the nature of your contributions. A-giâu 07:18, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yep, thanks. Just look here for an example, were we co-operate open with our names (author - translator): Elinborg Lützen. This finally provoked a nice guy in the German Wiki, for this was to much for him - and therefore came that disclaimer, which contradicts somehow. Anyway, Knud Wacher ensured again support for the Wiki Commons already, so we can make a comprehensive Faroese stamp catalogue here. I can ensure by knowing the stamps, that none of them is "somehow nonsense" (like in other small island-countries e.g. of the Commonwealth), but each one is telling from the local nature, culture and heritage. ;-) Arne List 21:45, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

We need a more explicit licence

The concerns raised two years ago are still valid.This link still says that the "texts and graphics may not be used for commercial purposes, or mechanical reproduction without permission". I'm not completely sure what they mean by that but it clearly does not translate to "public domain" in our sense of the words. Someone needs to write them and make clear what kind of licence we need to be able to use the stamps on Wikimedia Commons. Haukurth 22:34, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

I challenged the one making the claims and he refered to mail exchange with the postverk guy and to the postverk guy actually referencing Commons on a web site by his, so he hypothesized he should know, but I doubt this and the mail exchange is not very clear. So all this is not really an argument. I did thus actually request *unambiguous* clarification, long ago. I did not get any reply. It's also questionable if the postverk guy even in principle has the rights to license these as PD. I think the template should sooner or later be deleted --Rtc 22:14, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, this is awfully weak... :| Haukurth 17:24, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Very funny, but "this guy" Knud Wacher, is the boss of the Faroese stamps department. If you doubt, it is your problem. What more can I do, than asking and getting the license? What more evidences to the fact, that they know VERY WELL, what I am doing here, do you need, then the link to the Commons at http://www.stamps.fo -- Arne List 08:19, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't doubt that he's head of the department but that may not be the end of the story. The artists whose art is on the stamps have probably licenced their art for use on the stamps quo stamps, rather then transferring their copyright in toto to Postverk Føroya. Thus, Knud Wacher may not have the right to release the stamps into the public domain (allowing anyone to use them for any purpose, including commercial purposes). But even if he does have such rights there is no clear evidence that this is his intention. I know he's probably fine with the stamps being used in Wikimedia projects but that's not enough under our licencing policy. Which is a shame, really. Haukurth 18:31, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Another two years have passed and I haven't seen any further clarification. Haukurth (talk) 10:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi! I just called the philatelic office on Faroe Islands and asked if it was ok to print an illustration of a stamp in a book and there was no problem if I mention the source. Malin AhKing