File talk:The Spread Eagle docking at Saint Louis.jpg
There were at least two steamboats with the name of Spread Eagle. Cf. this image, which appears to have significantly different details than the ~1850s-60s vessel.
Is there a way to confirm that this Commons image is in fact the earlier steamboat lost in 1864? Kablammo (talk) 17:40, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
- This image is clearly a copy of this copy, which according to this source dates from the 1880s and was lost in 1918. (The url for the photo suggests it is from 1905, and this version from the Library of Congress dates it c. 1903.) The boat shown is clearly not the same boat as the 1857-64 boat of the same name, which is also listed on the riverboatdaves source. So this photo should not be used for the earlier boat. Kablammo (talk) 20:22, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
- And this source says there were three boats by that name. This image from the 1870s shows a Spread Eagle which looks virtually identical to the image here. Kablammo (talk) 20:38, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
- @Kablammo: I wonder if these issues could be addressed by simply using a different caption for the image when it is used in the article. E.g. the caption might explicitly say that the image depicts a later steam boat of the same name. Nsk92 (talk) 10:09, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
- And this source says there were three boats by that name. This image from the 1870s shows a Spread Eagle which looks virtually identical to the image here. Kablammo (talk) 20:38, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
- @Kablammo and Nsk92: Thanks for the inquiries. As much as I hate to see the image go, using it with an explanation in the caption, as Nsk92 suggests, may not be at all appropriate because we might misrepresent the steamboat covered by the article. For all we know the two vessels in question could look and be designed very differently. I'll look into the matter more, and if the two vessels are the same in design, capacity, type, etc, then we can entertain the idea of using the image with a note of explanation. I have to admit, when I saw the buildings in the background, they looked like those which were typical around the turn of the century then. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:22, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the pings. @Nsk92: , I missed yours somehow; sorry for the belated reply.)
- I too was sorry to see the image go, but as it did not show the boat in question I thought there was no choice. I do see some merit in using an examplar of a side-wheel steamboat on the page, especially as there is not a difference that I can detect between a mid-century sidewheeler and one from a half-century later.
- In searching for an image of the actual boat in question, I came across this site. It seems that there were four subsequent boats named Spread Eagle, all of the Eagle Packet Company, which seems unrelated to the first boat of that name which is the subject of the article.
- Best wishes to both of you, Kablammo (talk) 21:38, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
- @Kablammo and Nsk92: Thanks for the inquiries. As much as I hate to see the image go, using it with an explanation in the caption, as Nsk92 suggests, may not be at all appropriate because we might misrepresent the steamboat covered by the article. For all we know the two vessels in question could look and be designed very differently. I'll look into the matter more, and if the two vessels are the same in design, capacity, type, etc, then we can entertain the idea of using the image with a note of explanation. I have to admit, when I saw the buildings in the background, they looked like those which were typical around the turn of the century then. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:22, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
Similar riverboats
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@Kablammo and Nsk92: Here is an image from the Library of Congress, depicting riverboats in 1859, only two years after the Spread Eagle (covered in the article) was constructed. They look very similar to the image that was used here previously. The two above photos look almost identical. War Eagle on the left, the photo of which I found in a book, and have just uploaded, was built in 1852, and was 225' long with a 27' beam. The Spread Eagle above looks almost identical. The earlier Spread Eagle that raced against LaBarge, for which no photo can be found, yet, was launched in 1857 and was 210' long, with a 36' beam.<source> and was no doubt very similar to the images here. The ship's specs are very similar. Notice that the design of the wheel houses haven't changed since the 1850's. If we were to use an image to compare the Spread Eagle (steamboat) with, I would say, we're not going to do much better than with the image of the War Eagle. Perhaps a caption might read, "A Riverboat similar to the Spread Eagle". -- Gwillhickers (talk) 02:20, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
