File talk:Sogdian New Year Festival, Northern Qi.jpg

POV-pusher

There is one persistent POV-pusher (Maikolaser) who tries to prove Sogdian dress is actually "Turkic", despite this stele is from cca 550CE and sources clearly states this: Two periods in the history of the Sogdian costume can be singled out: Heptalitian (5th -6th cc.) and Turcic (7th - the beg. of the 8th c.) which implies costumes are Heptalitian not Turkic. He has been extreme in POV-pushing and forcing false dates ("700CE", which is actually Turkic period) despite photo is named after 550CE and it's clear that Northern Qi Dynasty ruled in late 500's. Beside that, I also put relevant sources which proves stele is from 567 or 573, but he still try to remove it. I suggest prevent locking of this photo. --Orijentolog (talk) 04:07, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Check this and this initial manipulations and everything will be very clear. --Orijentolog (talk) 05:50, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

By the way,

• Sergey A. Yatsenko doesn't refer to this.
• Dorothy C. Wong wrote It was set up, probably in later times, with three other Northern Qi steles (567, 573, and one undated) from the area (fig 9.10). The Gao Run Pingdengsi bei, 3.3 metres high, is the tallest of the four Inscriptions on the other steles indicate that they all related to famous temples of Luoyang. but doesn't refer to this image.

So, as long as I understand, these sources are irrelevant to this image. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 11:12, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

"Stele from Northern Qi Dynasty (ruled 550–577) showing Sogdians" is enough. Takabeg (talk) 11:20, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Sources are not irelevant:

1. Sergey A. Yatsenko's quotes:

• Two periods in the history of the Sogdian costume can be singled out: Heptalitian (5th -6th cc.) and Turcic (7th - the beg. of the 8th c.).
• Early Medieval clothes of Sogd known to us, in my opinion, can be researched in the boundaries of two periods. The first one is connected with nomads-Heptalites prevailing in Western Turkestan (the 5th - the 1st half of the 6th cc.). The political dominance of early Turks (approximately from 565 to the 40-ies of the 8th c.) accompanied by economical and cultural rise of Sogd is characteristic for the second period. But the second period of the costume history evidently started not soon after the beginning of the Turkic rule but half a century later, at the beginning of the 7th c.

1. Dorothy C. Wong, expert for East Asian art, clearly states that steles of Northern Qi dynasty are from 6th century.

That all imples costumes are not "Turkic" as POV-pusher claimed. --Orijentolog (talk) 13:13, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Anyway those sources don't refer to this image. Is this

中文：粟特人的新年祭圖, 中國北方, 安陽 (河南省), 北齊, 6世紀末, 石灰岩造

the original caption ? Takabeg (talk) 13:49, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

At en-Wikipedia, en:User:Maikolaser has been indef-blocked as a sockpuppet of en:User:Tirgil34. I expect the same relation between the two holds here at Commons.

I have exchanged mails with both Dorothy Wong and Sergey Yatsenko, and they confirm what Takabeg writes: This is not a stele but one part of a funerary couch; the dates given on p. 150 of Wong's book do not refer to this relief, and Yatsenko did not discuss this relief itself but otherwise confirms Orijentolog's account and agrees that the dresses depicted do not show Turkic influences. Prof. Wong pointed me to the following essay: Grenet, Frantz (2007). "Religious Diversity among Sogdian Merchants in Sixth-Century China: Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Manichaeism, and Hinduism". Comparative Studies of South Asia, Africa and the Middle East 27 (2): 463-478. Duke University Press. It discusses another panel of the same funerary couch (figure 5) which shows a Zoroastrian priest in the very same type of clothing, and it discusses the couch's provenance. Huon (talk) 00:56, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

The Freer Gallery site (referenced in the description of the whole slab, File:NorthernQiStellaeDepictingSogdianFestivities550CE.jpg) has a beautiful plan of the whole couch, and clicking on the parts shows images and display cards for each of the extant parts. Kanguole (talk) 00:00, 21 March 2012 (UTC)