File talk:Schengenzone.svg

Schengen enlargement not shown

The map is wrong since Bulgaria and Romania joined the Schengen Area on 31 March 2024. — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.230.147.211 (talk) 12:47, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Lost colours

in the last update the Associated Schengen members lost their colour. -- W.stoettinger (talk) 20:47, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the hint. I Hope now I've made it correctly. --Chumwa (talk) 09:37, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Swedish lakes

The three Swedish lakes, Vänern, Vättern and Mälaren should be coloured dark blue since they are internal waters connected only through canals with locks. Probably the Danish Limfjorden also.--BIL (talk) 21:07, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Fixed. --Glentamara (talk) 21:44, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

United Kingdom

Now that United Kingdom is not anymore part of the EU and Northern Ireland is not a state, do we need a new color? Same question for Gibraltar. --Ärrännä (talk) 16:15, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, stop that please. Members of Schengen are N, IS, FL and CH - all no EU-member states. The UK will still, as it seems, apply to some Schengen rules. The former version was correct. --Opihuck (talk) 18:20, 2 January 2021 (UTC)

Greece

The new colour for Greece (same as for Bulgaria and Romania) seems to be wrong. Opihuck (talk) 10:19, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Probably a mistake when they changed Bulgaria and Romania and forgot to keep Greece blue. Abzeronow (talk) 18:06, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

De jure you may be right, but de facto the land border of Greece to it's only Schengen neighbour (BG) is as closed as it is for BG and RO. Greek border guards are also still on patrol at the border to BG today.--Stefan040780 (talk) 16:12, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, nonsense. Greece is a full schengen member with schengenopen borders, especially sea and air borders. In fact not schengenopen landborders to the only neighbour country Bulgaria does not change this judgement at all. --Opihuck (talk) 11:02, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Bulgaria and Romania are full Schengen Members, too. Btw., the correct terminus ist "fully implementing countries".

If the land borders of Greece are so open, there must be an offical document somewhere, but I doubt that it exists. Back in 1997 it took de facto another three years of political talks after which Greece could finally lift it's air- and sea controls.--Stefan040780 (talk) 13:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

Take a plane from Athens to Frankfurt and you won't be checked. Greece has been part of the uncontrolled Schengen area since 8 December 1997. The fact that it currently has no land borders with a country with the same status does not change this. Greece was blue before your change, which is still absolutely correct. Greece's situation is currently no different from Iceland's, which is also correctly shown in blue: The fact that Iceland, as an island, has no land borders with another Schengen state does not change the fact that all Schengen rules apply there and - as far as possible - are also applied. It is the same with Greece. Purple for Greece is simply wrong. --Opihuck (talk) 07:22, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Same opinion regarding the air controls in the first part of your answer.

But Iceland has no land borders, while Greece has many kilometers of Schengen- and Non-Schengen borders. So you can't really compare both states.

The purple colour only indicates land border controls of Schengen countries and this is true for Greece as it is for BG and RO. Changing colours in the map doesn't automaticly mean a change in the border regime! But now, as this aspect has become important since late March this year it should also be visible for every country which is affected.--Stefan040780 (talk) 12:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

No, wrong remains wrong. Blue only indicates what applies to travel movements from the country marked in blue. People travelling from ‘blue countries’ are no longer checked. Greece has long been one of the blue states because travelling from this country to another Schengen state is no longer subject to identity checks.

The restriction that identity checks still take place at land borders only applies to overland travel from Bulgaria and Romania. You can choose purple for this matter. However, purple for Greece is clearly wrong. Even before the change for Bulgaria and Romania, Greece was correctly shown in blue and the changes for Bulgaria and Romania haven't changed the status of Greece. --Opihuck (talk) 13:00, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Purple indicates countries with land border controls. If you can show me at least one greek land border, where no controls are carried out, I would change that colour immediately with no doubt.

To solve the problem I also wouldn't mind to totally delete the purple category (it wasn't my idea to create it). But perhaps we also receive some other opinions to this topic.--Stefan040780 (talk) 15:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

The purple category exists, because Romania and Bulgaria, while desperately wanting so, cannot, at this moment, abolish land border controls with their Schengen neighbors. So it is an important distinction. Greece does not have that restriction. They just happen to only border Bulgaria. It seems very counterintuitive to me to color Greece purple, therefore. De-facto they might have border controls towards Bulgaria. But legally, they are allowed (!) to fully implement Schengen, while RO/BG are not. So, long story short, I agree with @Opihuck. Xolani (talk) 21:31, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

So I just reverted the colour of Greece.--Stefan040780 (talk) 16:08, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Good job! Thanx so lot! :-) --Opihuck (talk) 17:53, 17 August 2024 (UTC)

Revert

Dear @Stefan040780 - I disagree with the reasons given in your revert/frankly, I don't get them. - Microstates: You're right that microstates aren't signatory states. Well, they have the same color in the file you just reverted to. Happy to change to new color. But as it is that is no reason for revert, because you're reverting to the same state. - Sorry but "Members should have similar colours" just doesn't cut it. What is your reasoning behind that, aside from aesthetics? I would refer you to MOS:CONTRAST and WP:ACCESSIBILITY exactly BECAUSE colors are similar. That is the whole point of my project. Xolani (talk) 18:02, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Microstates (main reason for rejection): No, before it was the same colour as the surrounding states, and hardly visible without the circle. Andorra was even colourless. I'm fine with your suggestion to use a new colour.

Regarding similar colours: I want to preserve the unity, meaning similar colours representing a similar state (members or not members of the Schengen Agreement). But I also understand the reason for your change. Perhaps you can find a good compromise here?

--13:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC) Stefan040780 (talk) 13:59, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I understand your motivation to use similar colours. But the question also has to be: 1) what do you want people to understand when they see the map? That basically all of Europe is part of Schengen? Or that there are actual differences between these legal statuses? 2) how will people who have challenges to differentiate colors see that map, how will it be useful for them?

I would propose, as a compromise, to introduce a cyan color for non-EU Schengen members, as their status is indeed closer to the dark blue countries than the microstates who just have open borders. So it would look like this:

 

EU member states

 

Non-EU member states

 

EU member states with consequent controls at their land borders (planned to be dropped later)

 

EU member states which apply only some Schengen laws (with opt-out)

 

EU member states which have not implemented the Schengen Agreement yet (without opt-out)

 

Non-EU countries with open borders

Xolani (talk) 20:31, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm fine with this bundle of colours, because it is easy to directly indicate the Schengen Area. But the description for green seems to be missleading, because UK is also a Non-EU country with an open border (with the Republic of Ireland). You could write instead s.th. like "Microstates outside Schengen with an open border regime".--Stefan040780 (talk) 18:53, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I've done so. Though I wonder whether Northern Ireland should indeed be colored green (this doesn't apply to the whole UK, if I understand the situation correctly). Xolani (talk) 18:47, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Gentlemen: Why is Liechtenstein green? Liechtenstein is a full member of the EEA and as such full member of the Schengenzone. It ought to have light blue like Iceland, Norway and Switzerland. --Opihuck (talk) 20:15, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Correct.--Stefan040780 (talk) 20:51, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Fixed.--Stefan040780 (talk) 11:35, 8 September 2024 (UTC)