Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Radaja Seto Festival (2016) - 115.jpg

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File:Radaja Seto Festival (2016) - 115.jpg, featured

[edit]

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.Voting period ends on 20 Oct 2016 at 05:57:25 (UTC)
Visit the nomination page to add or modify image notes.

Seto woman
  •  Question - Considering that your opinion of what a "feminine setting" is in Estonia has been gently but thoroughly debunked, would you reconsider your opposition, which was on the basis that it looked "masculine"? -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:09, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The background is hard and unattractive to me, as are the rocks surrounding her legs. The woman looks lovely, but I'd prefer to see her in a softer more feminine setting - with her grandchildren around or sitting in front of her home for instance. Perhaps that sounds a bit chauvinistic, but it's not meant that way. lNeverCry 04:02, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Women have been working the fields since the dawn of agriculture. It's only in rich families that the woman of the house was able to be just a housewife, and that was with another woman working as her maidservant. I think you should abstain, because you don't have to like the image, but your objection is based on a concept of what is masculine and what is feminine that doesn't apply in this context and only reflects your cultural background, not the subject's. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:36, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've opposed because I basically don't find the background to be complimentary to the subject. That's an aesthetic judgment, and I think a valid reason for opposing. I also don't care for the rocks at her feet. This oppose reflects my honest opinion of the photograph. lNeverCry 08:22, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • No-one's suggested you are being dishonest; instead, to stop pussyfooting around, the suggestion is that you have acted based on a prejudice - and an inaccurate, irrelevant one, in this case in particular - of what "feminine" means, and it's clear that I'm not the only one who had that reaction to your basis for opposing. But now it's the rocks, so whatever. Have a good night. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:44, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Ikan Kekek: I slept on it, and I did have a decent night. I didn't mean to vote out of any prejudice, but perhaps I've done so and just didn't realize it. I've gone ahead and struck my oppose and switched to support. The last thing I want to do here at FPC is be unfair in my voting. My sincere apologies to Kruusamägi and any others for any discomfort I may have caused. I do love how the woman looks, and if this is a common setting, my original oppose is based on my own preferences, which isn't a good show of objectivity. lNeverCry 01:27, 13 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment This is actually a very natural setting and I'm personally unable to see it as masculine. Estonia was an agrarian society rather lately (like during our national awakening time in 19th century). Also compared to western Europe, women in Estonia (or in the Nordics in general) have always had relatively lot of power. Like prior to the Northern Crusades (i.e. at viking times) wife was the ruler of the farm, when her husband was at sea (including power over hired man, that were often present in bigger farms). And after crusades everyone were equal as everyone were made slaves. There isn't that distinction, that agricultural equipment belongs to men or something. And well, on my mothers side both of my grandfather and grandmother were tractor drivers. So this newly fond equality between sexes in modern society is something I struggle to understand (I mean it was about a time for others to finally get there). And when thinking about traditional (i.e. 19th century party clothes on the example of Estonia) and thinking that there is nothing that relates them to farm work... well, first example that comes to my mind is when in Kihnu island (the only location were the habit of making and wearing traditional clothes never stopped as in rest of Estonia), I've even seen a woman weeding potatoes on a field in an old set of traditional clothing (like if it gets to rugged to be used as formal clothes, then it just gets downgraded to a new position as a working uniform). And growin our own food is still rather common in Estonia (including in my own family). So this set of clothing goes very well hand-to-hand to farm work -- at the time when traditional clothes started to look like this (and stopped developing further, as they soon went out of use for several decades), then most of the Estonians at the time still lived in farms. Kruusamägi (talk) 08:38, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Moderate  Support - I'm a little frustrated that you weren't able to get better resolution on the coins on her necklaces, because it would be nice to look at those details, but I like the costume and it's a good, well-composed portrait. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:10, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment Jewellery wasn't the thing I was aiming for with this image and there is lot or variability there anyway. For example on this image it is possible to see Estonian 20 cent ja 1 kroon coins, here are lot of coins I'm unable to identify, here seem to be some US coins and here you could also notice some Soviet era coins. But those coins on the image in question may even be from tsarists time (prior to I WW) as this two-headed eagle is/was the coat of arms of Russia and I think modern Rubles don't have that crown on top if it. But I wouldn't rule out that some women may even have few actual silver rubles there. But anyway that would need a separate set of images specially focusing on jewellery to really describe that. At the old time traditional clothes were hand made by the owner and non was identical to other (not so today). So a big focus on details my give a false idea, that all the clothes look like that or should look like that. Kruusamägi (talk) 08:59, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
 Comment Additional explanation. Jewellery showed the wealth of the farm and the bearer. If has also been said, that "first you hear seto women, and then you may also see her" (considering that this amount of silver does make some noise when moved). On the time this type of jewellery emerged, Estonia was under Russian rule and there were also silver Rubles used as coins and this is how coins went to be used there. As nowadays the function of the traditional clothes has changed (it's more like to show off cultural identity or as a performance costume), then there likely isn't that much silver in the jewellery and presenting that isn't no longer important (and getting some actual silver coins is more tricky). Also considering the 20th century events I don't think much of the old silver ware has remained to the hands of the people (like in the beginning of the Soviet occupation both cultural/military/ruling elite in Estonia and rich people were targeted and often killed or sent to Siberia with their possessions confiscated).
One of the more interesting items there is this big brooch, that should be made of silver. I've heared different variations about it. Like "it is weared when she has given a birth to a girl and thus becoming a real women" (at least in some regions it was normal to have different words for a women who has given birth to a girl and who hasn't) to a one that "it is weared as long as women gives birth to a girls and then it is passed down to her". Don't really know. Kruusamägi (talk) 10:03, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed results:
Result: 10 support, 0 oppose, 0 neutral → featured. /Christian Ferrer (talk) 13:51, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This image will be added to the FP gallery: People
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