Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Late-intermediate-peru.png

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Image:Late-intermediate-peru.png

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while I guess the uploader created this image, it's not exactly clear. Also, the uploader references a copyright 1992 for the basis, but that could just be text not visually. --Ricky81682 (talk) 08:12, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to this customer review on Amazon.com, the 2001 edition of the book is "Illustrated with photographs, maps and diagrams". Is it not strange that the book, while it has other maps, does not have a map on the late intermediate era ? Teofilo (talk) 14:52, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not arguing this map isn't based on data, or even a map from the book. I'm not arguing uploader didn't use the book. I'm arguing that even if uploader wholesale ripped the book off, copyright infringement is impossible. First off, you can quite clearly tell this image is computer-rendered, blow it up to full size and look. It is clearly not a scan. Furthermore the uploader points out he added a few tribes not mentioned in the book. So it is not entirely taken from the book. The shape and political borders of South America are plainly not copyrighted. So what did uploader use from the book? The ranges of a few South American tribes. You do argue below the location of archaeological sites might impose a database right, but again, uploader is not showing specific sites, merely a blob where certain tribes lived. This information is generally known and can't really be copyrighted. It'd be like saying "The phone numbers in this town are between x and y". Besides, the en:database right only lasts 15 years, and didn't even exist in the U.K. until 1997. Even supposing the right did exist retroactively to 1992, it would have expired January 1, 2008. -Nard the Bard 16:33, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
[I wrote in my previous message that the database right law was retroactive, down to 1983]. The uploader says This book was written in 1992 but does not cover the Chimu much, nor the newly discovered Chachapoyas culture. Would this mean that the purple zone labeled "Chimor" (the name of the Kingdom of the Chimu) is not taken from the book and was added by the uploader ? We should then conclude that this map does not fully cite its sources. Perhaps it only means that the book tells a few basic things about the Chimu, gives enough geographical data so that the purple area can be constructed, but is disappointing by not giving enough details on this tribe on other matters than geography. And I do not see anything on the map concerning the Chachapoyas. So my feeling is that the uploader has not added much which was not in the book. By the way, there is another Chimor map : Image:Mapa cultura chimu.png, and that one does not cite any source. Teofilo (talk) 20:20, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment If the book contains only a few data, using these data is harmless, but I suspect the resulting map would not be accurate enough, and not suitable to be used on Wikipedia. If, on the other hand, the book contains a large collection of data, these data should be protected by en:Database right. Teofilo (talk) 22:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You can't copyright data deprived of artistic input, but in the European Union, you can databaseright it. The book was published in the UK, in the European Union (database rights and copyrights are two separate chapters of intellectual property rights, among patents, trademarks and so on). If the author spent a lot of time gathering data on where archeological remains have been found for each tribe, so that an accurate map can be built, this could be protected by the European Union/UK law. Teofilo (talk) 23:38, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The author is from the U.S., and (based on a WorldCat search) the book appears to have been simultaneously published by the New York and the London branches of Thames & Hudson, so we might count it more as a U.S. work. Moreover, it was first published in 1992, before database rights existed, and more than 15 years ago, so even if there was a database right, it should have expired by this year. --dave pape (talk) 01:25, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I read "Thames" and I thought it was british. The Database rights protected by the European directive is available for databases completed after 1 January 1983 (see article 14 (3). A database right expires only if no substantial modifications have been made during the protection time. In the case of that book, a new edition was published in 2001 with the subtitle "Revised Edition". That means that some modifications have been made, but it doesn't say if the modifications are substantial enough. This turns this discussion into a series of "if" rather unconclusive. The protection of unexpressive large collections of data if one of the most difficult areas of intellectual property. See also en:Sweat of the brow and en:Feist Publications v. Rural Telephone Service. Teofilo (talk) 14:16, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
An database updated enough to be considered a new work would gain a new copyright, but the outdated version surely is no longer protected... -Nard the Bard 16:39, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Per en:Wikipedia:Verifiability, a list of places where archeological remains have been found, for each tribe, would be a more solid base to begin with, than a map with unclear sources. After such a list has been made, we could ask a wikigraphist to make a map, and we would then be more confident that the resulting map is truly self-made. Teofilo (talk) 23:51, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kept. On balance, I'm inclined to think that what has been taken is not copyrightable. MichaelMaggs (talk) 19:52, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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