Commons:Deletion requests/File:Ukrainian Artists Society of Australia-1976.jpg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Ukrainian_Artists_Society_of_Australia-1976.jpg

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user:pkravchenko has a history of copyvio, so I am not sure about "own work". Alos, this is a DW of the poster in the center.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 15:42, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, this is a scan of an original negative - this is clear from the large version of the image (you can see faint the original photo 'grain' and also age 'crackles' in the negative). If you are not an expert in images and old photos, then you should not rely only on what "appears" to you, and make deletion requests. You may be doing a lot of good work on Commons, but it is inappropriate and unprofessional of you to assume that all my uploads are 'copyvio' and to imply that I am 'unreliable' here or anywhere else. I have experienced aggressive attacks by a certain 'group' of users already, so I do not appreciate your public 'doubts' about authenticity, and imputations about my unreliability. I have been forced to be 'outed' by these users, so I do not want to repeat this here. If you supply me with instructions regarding a way of 'verifying' the fact that I have the negative, then I will. --Pkravchenko (talk) 09:24, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You say you have the negative and that you scanned it yourself, and I certainly have no reasons to doubt that. But the important question is, are you the author of that negative (not just the owner)? As for the derivative work of the poster, I don't think we have to worry about that; it seems too simple for copyright protection. –Tryphon☂ 13:41, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, in line with the statement "own work" I am the author and the copyright holder of the negative. How am I supposed to prove it? What objective guidelines/policies/mechanisms are there in WP that provide a reliable way of verifying authenticity (besides 'suspicion')? I did ask User:Jameslwoodward to show me by what method I could establish my "innocence", but as he has not helped with this, I will instead send an OTRS permission. --Pkravchenko (talk) 05:26, 1 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I said only two things in the nomination:

  • user:pkravchenko has a history of copyvio, so I am not sure about "own work"
  • this is a DW of the poster in the center.

I said nothing about it being a scan from a book or any other source and made no technical comment about it, so most of Pkravchenko's comment is off the point.

Let's examine the two things I did say:

  • user:pkravchenko has a history of copyvio, so I am not sure about "own work"

Pkravchenko has uploaded images to 116 files. Of those, 15 have been deleted and 11 have been nominated for deletion as copyright violations. That is certainly "a history of copyvio". Note that I did not say he did this deliberately, but simply stated the facts. Since we Assume Good Faith, the fact that an uploader has a history of copyvio -- whether that is from malfeasance, frequent mistakes, or misunderstanding of the rules -- is certainly relevant to looking at a 34 year old photograph for which the uploader claims "own work".

Your conclusion is based on a premise, albeit a false premise, that "People who upload copyvio files are liars, and therefore their files have to be deleted". Your nomination is based on the premise that I am dishonest, because if there is no technical reason for nomination, then the only apparent reason is because I stated that they are my 'own work'.
Let's take your cherry picking of 'data' which you use to justify your nomination, effectively used as a character assassination:
  1. Firstly, my contribution to Commons has been more than just uploads — I have contributed to other people's files, by adding extra information and introducing English or Ukrainian translations, in almost all cases adding links to the relevant WP pages/topics.
  2. I have also done a lot of categorization, either correcting, or adding categories to pages where there were none.
  3. I have transferred files from WP:en and WP:uk, where appropriate, to Commons, and added the corresponding translation/information to the pages.
  4. In all cases where the files were deleted, they fell into 2 categories: a) where it was my mistake regarding the date between the creation of the work and 70 years from death of the author, and b) where I uploaded files specifically showing covers of references which I was asked to display for verification purposes, and which were clearly marked as such. (The fact that the requester did not provide an alternative way of displaying/sending the files, is consistent with your refusal to do the same — see my request earlier above).
  5. Moreover, none of the files deleted were deleted because I falsely, or erroneously attributed them as 'my own work'.
  6. In all cases, whether deleted or not, I have accurately included the authorship and/or sources.
  7. In all cases, where the file was from someone else, I gained permission and verified this through OTRS!::So the reasoning that my file has to deleted because I am not to be trusted when I say the file is "my own work" is a hasty generalization and any justification for deletion based on this is misleading and a half-truth.
Using your own technique of anecdotal evidence I could say that you are not to be trusted as an administrator, because you have a 'history' of serious errors of judgment, as can be seen in your ignorance in not being able to tell the difference between a printing half-tone and a textured photo paper in another of my files you nominated for deletion — something so basic that it would be seen as negligent coming from an administrator who takes it upon himself to delete other people's uploads. --Pkravchenko (talk) 12:59, 2 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • this is a DW of the poster in the center.

This is certainly true, so even if Pkravchenko did take the photograph, it is still a derivative work of the poster and therefore cannot be kept here.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:42, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well no, it is not "certainly true" just because of your says-so. Actually I am the copyright owner of the poster, so I'm sorry to disappoint you.
I did not suggest you use OTRS because it is my opinion that this image is a Derivative Work of the poster shown in its center and therefore cannot be kept unless we get permission from the creator of the poster. My colleague, Tryphon, disagrees above. We will have to see what others think.      Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 12:37, 1 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, given that 1) you aren't very good at telling the difference between a scanned image from a book and an original scan from a negative (at high resolution), 2) you have demonstrated a prejudice against me, and 3) despite my requests you have not given me any way of providing verification of my 'own work', I'm not sure you are the best person to make such a 'call'. Unless requested by another administrator, I will send my private details and verification of these photos to OTRS. --Pkravchenko (talk) 12:59, 2 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: valid OTRS Jcb (talk) 12:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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