Commons:Deletion requests/File:UK road traffic warning sign dual carriageway end.png

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:UK_road_traffic_warning_sign_dual_carriageway_end.png

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Symbol shown is non-free crown copyright Sfan00 IMG (talk) 13:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep, {{PD-ineligible}}. –Tryphon☂ 14:45, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted by Manuelt15: Mass deletion of files added by Kazuya360, see http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=43875168#User:Kazuya102

Reopened, my apologies, you can continue. --Màñü飆¹5 talk 18:01, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Believe it or not, UK government does know the content of its own law. [2] Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 s4 Artistic works. 4(1)In this Part “artistic work” means— (a)a graphic work, photograph, sculpture or collage, irrespective of artistic quality (2)In this Part—“graphic work” includes—(a)any painting, drawing, diagram, map, chart or plan. That UK law is more expansive as to scope of copyright than the law of some other countries (eg the US) does not make it copyfraud. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 10:43, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
But a work still needs to be original in order to enjoy copyright protection. From article 1 (1a): "original literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works" (emphasis is mine) are protected by copyright. Compare with File:Diamond road sign dual carriageway end.svg or File:A3.svg. Besides, Crown copyright lasts 50 years, so it most likely would have expired anyway. –Tryphon☂ 12:05, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That last is a better argument, and had occurred to me also I must admit. The drawing linked above has an issue date of 1994, but the sign was in use a long time before that (and I would agree with you that tarting with it does not necessarily a new drawing make, no matter what the government claims). As for the others, the Irish roadsign postdates the UK one (I can remember the first piece of dual carriageway ever built in Eire!) and the French roadsign could potentially make a case for a different roadsign in the UK, P516. I will see if I can dig in the archives and find the original issue date of P500, as it may be over 50 years old. Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:28, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This may prove germane to the debate [3]. Note the information on page 2 The artwork of traffic signs is covered by a waiver and may therefore be reproduced free of charge, without the need to obtain permission, subject to it being reproduced accurately and not used in a misleading context. The copyright source of the material must also be acknowledged. This backs up what I was saying - under UK copyright law, the exactness of the drawings allows the copyright, as that forms part of the 'originality' if you like. The first publication date for the booklet is 1975, but most roadsigns go back to the 1960s, so I will keep looking. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 13:40, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

More info The Design Council. UK roadsigns were designed in one big batch 1963-64 by Jock Kinnear and Margaret Calvert, and introduced 1 January 1965 by Act of Parliament. Bear in mind that it is the entire sign - white triangle, red border, black symbol - that is copyright, and it was the system of signage (use of triangle or circle, colours and symbols) that Kinnear and Calvert devised. I don't think later, minor tweaks (I'll bet they were designed in imperial, not metric, units for example) can have restarted the copyright clock, but I do think the design will be copyright until 2015, although freely usable under waiver.Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:11, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  •  Keep It looks like all UK legislation has been released under an accepted free licence. See legislation.gov.uk where it states that "You may use and re-use the information featured on this website (not including logos) free of charge in any format or medium, under the terms of the Open Government Licence". The image page would probably need tweaking a bit to bring it in line with that licence. See also {{OGL}}. Adambro (talk) 14:04, 20 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, the new Open Government License has freed up a great many things that were previously under Crown Copyright. I would certainly now say this image (and any other UK roadsigns living over here) should be kept.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:25, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 Keep under {{OGL}}. I suspect this would be PD-ineligible in the U.S., but the UK concept of "original" is often taken to just mean "not seen before", and not in a "creative" sense (thus the theories that personal signatures can be copyrighted there; see Commons:When to use the PD-signature tag). So... there may be reason for discussion (though the image could have been moved to en-wiki locally, and used there, as I think they go strictly by U.S. law). However, the UK government now explicitly says that all material previously available under their copyright waiver (which didn't really waive enough restrictions to be "free") are now available under their Open Government License, so I think we can easily keep under that license. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:46, 11 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If so, we should undelete numerous UK traffic signs. Trycatch (talk) 10:31, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, I'm sure. The "Know Your Traffic Signs" book linked above notes the graphics are available under waiver, though the text is only available under a Click-Use License -- but even anything previously available under that license is now licensed with the OGL; see here. Carl Lindberg (talk) 16:28, 13 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The text may well have been released now - government departments are being urged to replace click-use with OGL.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The link I gave above (the OGL FAQ) says explicitly that anything which was previously made available under the click-use can now be used under the terms of the OGL, seemingly with no further action on anyone's part (though it would be prefereable if the OGL was actually mentioned on the source document itself). That is the way it reads to me at least. Does the government require that the license actually be changed at the source? It doesn't read that way from the FAQ above at least as regards to the click-use license. Carl Lindberg (talk) 07:59, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
@Trycatch, anything that has documentation/photos in the National Archives should be released now.--Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:00, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Kept, as {{OGL}}. Kameraad Pjotr 22:36, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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