Commons:Deletion requests/File:The Queen Pleads for the Men of Calais, 1914.JPG

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:The Queen Pleads for the Men of Calais, 1914.JPG

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No publication date or author is given; the anonymous UK tag is invalid, as no evidence is given of the research done to establish the painter's identity; no valid US tag is provided Hchc2009 (talk) 06:52, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep Nonsense request: http://www.bridgemanimages.com/en-GB/asset/311032/english-school-20th-century/the-queen-pleads-for-the-men-of-calais-1914-colour-litho 37.5.2.252 08:19, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The UK web page you've given gives no details as to whether it was ever originally published, claims copyright over the image itself under UK law and notes that "The copyright status of this image is either dependent on the territories into which you are publishing or is undetermined due to limited information on the creator. Please contact us if you have any questions." As it stands, the Commons image file has no valid US or UK tag on it. Indeed, an anonymous, unpublished image is protected for 120 years after the date of creation in the US, so would be under copyright in the US until 2034. Hchc2009 (talk) 08:37, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
An interesting question for Bridgneman may be: "Why do you try to sell free artwork (free in the country of its origin and in the US) although you cannot name its author?" 37.5.2.252 08:59, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The underlying image is not necessarily free in the UK (there is conditionality involved in a UK anonymity claim), and under UK law Bridgeman's reproduction of it may well introduce a new, additional copyright; and the original may well not be free in the US either, thus their warning tag on the webpage. Hchc2009 (talk) 09:09, 26 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kept: The author seems to be unknown (english school) at multiple sources where normally attribution to a known author would be likely Basvb (talk) 15:32, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:The Queen Pleads for the Men of Calais, 1914.JPG

[edit]

As an anonymous work with no evidence of publication with the permission of the creator, it is copyright in the US until 120 years after creation (1914) making the work still in copyright in the US until 2034 Hchc2009 (talk) 22:10, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This image has been kept earlier today, however this argument has not fully been explored previously. Another thing: Could you refrain from deleting valid licenses from images which have just been kept per that license simply because you disagree? As you can see in my reasoning in keeping the file basic research has been done and the author being unknown is not by a lack of looking into it. Basvb (talk) 23:22, 3 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Basvb, this was actually exactly the argument I put above originally on 26 April (!), which you examined yesterday: have a look at the text above ("no valid US tag is provided... an anonymous, unpublished image is protected for 120 years after the date of creation in the US, so would be under copyright in the US until 2034.") To state the obvious, images on the Commons require both a US and UK tag - at the moment the image doesn't have a valid US tag; if the image is anonymous and there is no evidence of it being originally published with the creator's consent, then it is still under copyright in the US.
In terms of the UK tag, take another look at the tag. You'll see that there's a key phrase in it, which says " If you wish to rely on it, please specify in the image description the research you have carried out to find who the author was." This is an important part of UK copyright law, as someone (e.g. an editor here) using a claim of anonymity in the UK must demonstrate that "the author cannot be ascertained by reasonable enquiry" - for example by conducting research, asking the original source of the image where they acquired it, etc., and showing what steps they took to get to that conclusion (e.g. what were the "multiple sources" checked? Did you email any companies currently offering the image for sale? etc.). This is different (I believe) from the situation in the Netherlands and much of Europe, which doesn't require this to be done..
The British Academy gives some useful advice here in pleasantly plain English (!) (see here, section 8). They note that "the potential user should be able to demonstrate that serious efforts have been made in good faith to locate and contact the rights owner, including all reasonably available avenues of inquiry, before any use of the work not already permitted by law... may be made." There's a useful list of examples in that section to illustrate what this might mean.
You've restored the tag, but still haven't provided this information, which is essential for the claim. That's important legally. I've no problem in principle with you adding a UK-anonymous tag to this file, but if you do so, you do need to follow the Commons rules and specify what research you undertook in the image description. Hchc2009 (talk) 03:53, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
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