Commons:Deletion requests/File:Saint James Oldham A Hirst cropped adjusted PICT0069.jpg
The source and author are not the uploader. Although this image does not appear to be on the source's web site, that site has an explicit copyright notice, so we will need permission via Commons:OTRS or some other way to understand how a CC-BY license applies here. . Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:38, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Reply by uploader:
I did obtain permission for this image. It is detailed in the following emails:
Original Message -----
From: "Saint James's Church" <sjamespcc@hotmail.co.uk> To: <aspdin@gmail.com> Cc: <office@ajharchitect.co.uk> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 9:23 PM Subject: RE: Photograph of St James church exterior wanted. Dear Nigel Thanks for your e-mail. Unfortunatley, we cannot assist you directly in this. We do have a website with a photo gallery but everything we use is obtained from various sources, with permission of course. You are free to use any of the pictures from the photo gallery on the website. Alternately, you might like to contact the church architect who is most likely to have what you need. His name is Alan J Hirst and his e-mail address is:- office@ajharchitect.co.uk Another good source would be the Oldham Evening Chronicle. Yours sincerely Matthew Kennedy On behalf of S. James's Church, Oldham.
and then from me in reply:
Dear Matthew Thank you for that, and for forwarding a copy to Mr Hirst. I hope he may be able to help, if not then one day I will get myself to Oldham and take one myself ! Regards Nigel
and then:
Original Message -----
From: "Saint James's Church" <sjamespcc@hotmail.co.uk> To: <aspdin@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 3:36 PM Subject: FW: Photograph of St James church exterior wanted. Dear Nigel I've received this e-mail from our architect with attached picture if it is of any use to you? Matthew
the attachment being the permission:
From: office@ajharchitect.co.uk To: sjamespcc@hotmail.co.uk Subject: RE: Photograph of St James church exterior wanted. Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:09:45 +0100 Morning Matthew. Please see above, I think this is a good photo and I give permission for its use. Alan
So please do not delete. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aspdin (talk • contribs) 23:49, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
- It is, by the way, a good photo, and deserves some effort. Unfortunately, "I give permission for its use", written to a third party, is not sufficient for our needs. While that seems to give permission to St James Church for its use, it says nothing about broader use, gives St. James no right to sublicense it, and does not speak of commercial use or derivative works. Please see if you can get the architect to send permission using the procedure at Commons:OTRS. Thanks, . Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 11:15, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Further reply by uploader:
This following email, my initial email seeking an image and permission ought to be sufficient. It is a request for a photo to use on Wikipedia and the purpose is stated and existing example uses are illustrated by giving an example link. In essence I asked the church for a photo to use. They did not have one so they asked their architect who they knew would have one, and asked by copying my email to him. In response the architect sent a copy on October 14 2009 stating "I think this is a good photo and I give permission for its use".
In my humble view a Court in England would regard this chain of events as permission for use of the image.
Reply-To: "Nigel Aspdin, Derby, UK." <aspdin@gmail.com> From: "Nigel Aspdin, Derby, UK." <aspdin@gmail.com> To: <sjamespcc@hotmail.co.uk> Subject: Photograph of St James church exterior wanted. Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:50:26 +0100 Please could you pass this email to your webmaster or member of the parish with an interest in photography? I am trying to illustrate the work of Francis Goodwin, architect, on Wikipedia. To see how far I have got, please look at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Goodwin Is anyone able to assist me by supplying a suitable digital photo of St James by email? Many thanks Yours sincerely Nigel Aspdin
You now have all the correspondence.
So again, please do not delete this file.
Aspdin (talk) 21:42, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
- Let's make sure I understand this correctly. Your request, addressed to the church, was
- "I am trying to illustrate the work of Francis Goodwin, architect, on Wikipedia."
- The church sent your message on to their architect. The response from the architect, who is the copyright holder, was to supply the subject image, saying
- "I think this is a good photo and I give permission for its use."
- If my understanding is correct, then my conclusion above is also correct. The permission speaks only to use on the English Wikipedia. Unfortunately, that is not sufficient even for use on WP:EN. Both WP:EN and Commons require that files be freely licensed for commercial use, derivative works, and sub licensing, see Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags#Guidelines and Commons:Licensing.
- As I said above, in order to keep it here, we will need a license from the architect using the procedure at Commons:OTRS. . Jim . . . . Jameslwoodward (talk to me) 22:05, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Deleted: Please send permission to COM:OTRS FASTILY (TALK) 01:19, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
