Commons:Deletion requests/File:Newmarket Coach Lines bus 32 at garage.jpg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Newmarket Coach Lines bus 32 at garage.jpg

[edit]

This was tagged as a speedy deletion, which I do not believe is applicable in this case. This is a procedural nomination. The speedy nomination reason given by GeoSwan was "We can't prove that this image isn't still considered copyright, in the USA, due to peculiarities of the URAA." Mindmatrix 18:18, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Geo Swan here, the guy who tagged this image.
My apologies to Mindmatrix. I uploaded some images captured by James Victor Salmon, a prolific amateur photographer who died in 1958, whose extensive collection was eventually sold to the Toronto Public Library. The TPL said his images were public domain, and I was quite surprised when one I uploaded was challenged, on URAA grounds.

Recently a wikistalker who targetted my contributions on en.wiki, until he was indefinitely banned, started targetting my contributions here. They were extremely unpleasant in challenging Salmon images I uploaded, prior to learning about the URAA wrinkle, or that he took between 1946 and 1949. So I decided to speedy all Salmon images I uploaded that were vulnerable to a challenge.

In retrospect Mindmatrix is correct, I could have saved speedy for the ones I uploaded, and have initiated a deletion discussion for the others. My apologies for that.
I kept a list, which I will reproduce below, which includes 28 images which have already been speedied.
If the TPL agrees to waive any foreign intellectual property rights they retain to images in their collection which have fallen into the public domain in Canada, they could be restored, right away. Alternately, they could be restored when the they fall into the public domain in the USA.
I had no arguments to offer for why the URAA shouldn't apply to these images. Yes, I had doubts these images were ever copyright, in the USA. But I am also aware how stringently many contributors think we should carry the precautionary principle.
After his death, and before his widow sold his collection, Salmon's widow agreed to let some US authors of (frankly obscure) books on rail transit use some of his images in their books. I know this because they explicitly thanked her in their books acknowledgements. I think this establishes that some dozens of the images from his collection fo 15,000 images definitively are covered by US copyright. Which of his images would this be? I don't know, ones related to rail transit.
FWIW Salmon's collection includes both images he took himself, and images he was given, or purchased. When the TPL archivists studied the collection they found something like 2,000 of the images were copies of official City of Toronto images, not originals. Many other images in his collection date back to when he was a child, or were from even before his birth. Some of these images have been uploaded here credited to Salmon, himself, when it is not credible he took them, himself. Under the precautionary principle we should probably assume that Salmon did not own the intellectual property rights to any images he purchased or was given, and that those intellectual property rights belong to the someone else, usually the original photographer, who might have died after Salmon.
Anyhow, here is the list of images from the Salmon collection, that I thought were vulnerable to an URAA challenge, the first 28 already speedied before Mindmatrix contacted me. Geo Swan (talk) 19:47, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  1. File:Bay_St.,_looking_s._from_Queen_St._W..jpg
  2. File:Clarkson_CNR_station,_1955.jpg
  3. File:Front_St._E.,_looking_w._from_e._of_Scott_St..jpg
  4. File:Mimico_CNR_Station.jpg
  5. File:Port_Credit_CNR_Station_R-960.jpg
  6. File:Port_Credit_CNR_Station_R-963.jpg
  7. File:Weston_Railway_Station_CNR_s1-782.jpg
  8. File:Weston_Railway_Station_CPR_s1-770.jpg
  9. File:Locomotive_8456_over_the_Don_River.jpg
  10. File:Highway_7_bridge_crossing_the_Humber_River_near_Islington_Avenue,_Woodbridge,_Ontario,_1954.jpg
  11. File:Yonge_St.,_King_To_Queen_Sts.,_looking_north_from_north_of_Temperance_St._(22310479210).jpg
  12. File:Centennial_plaque_of_inaugural_steam_train_service_in_Ontario,_Union_Station,_1953.jpg
  13. File:Yonge_St.,_Bloor_St._To_St._Clair_Ave.,_looking_north_from_Bloor_St._(17312760512).jpg
  14. File:Newmarket_Coach_Lines_bus_29_on_route,_1957.jpg
  15. File:Don_Station_in_1956.jpg
  16. File:View_of_St._Lawrence_Market_Canopy_1952.jpg
  17. File:Trailer_camp_in_Woodbridge,_November_1954.jpg
  18. File:Ruins_of_Watson's_B.A._Service_Station_after_Hurricane_Hazel.jpg
  19. File:Fina_Station_Dundas_St._W.,_looking_s.w._across_Bloor_St._W._(17065328006).jpg
  20. File:Fire_engine_of_the_Robinson_Cotton_Mills,_1955.jpg
  21. File:Cooksville_CPR_Station,_1955.jpg
  22. File:Girl_in_Toronto_Railway_Company_car_1326,_1953.jpg
  23. File:Eighth_Avenue_in_Woodbridge,_Ontario,_looking_north,_1955.jpg
  24. File:Woodbridge_CPR_Station.jpg
  25. File:Islington_railway_station_of_the_CPR,_1954.jpg
  26. File:Locomotive_852_at_Port_Credit_station,_1955.jpg
  27. File:C.N.R._number_6244,_looking_west_from_west_of_Strachan_Ave._(17560496675).jpg
  28. File:Greenwood_Racetrack_1953_James_Victor_Salmon_1911-1958.jpg
  29. File:McCaul_Loop_pictures-r-352.jpg
  30. File:Bluebell-ferry-1951-toronto.jpg
  31. File:Pure_Food_Building_1952.jpg
  32. File:CNE_Machinery_Hall.jpg
  33. File:Gooderham_fountain_1951.jpg
  34. File:Guild_Inn_1956.jpg
  35. File:Coliseum_Building,_CNE_Grounds_1952.jpg
  36. File:Engineering_and_Electrical_Building,_CNE_Grounds,_Toronto.jpg
  37. File:Don_R._(West_Don_R.),_looking_north_across_Yonge_St._bridge_(30040304340).jpg
  38. File:Hurontario1955.jpg
  39. File:CNE Bandshell 1952.jpg
  40. File:Observatory and administration building.jpg
  41. File:1906 Richmond Hill Station.jpg
  42. File:TTC Vehicle 2836 at Exhibition Loop.jpg
  43. File:Yonge St. looking n. from G.T.R. Belt Line bridge s. of Merton St.jpg
  44. File:Davisville Yard 1953.jpg
  • I think that URAA would only be valid if any of these had been copyright in the glorious U. S. of A. in the first place. Why would they be? Nobody seems to have proven that and therefore this entire discussion is bullshit! Thank you. Secondarywaltz (talk) 22:43, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment I believe that the deletion discussion mentioned by Geo Swan is Commons:Deletion requests/File:Fire Hall, Toronto, Ford St., e. side, n. of Connolly St..jpg. There is nothing "unpleasant" about it. In 2013 (which is well before I came along), other editors patiently explained the URAA issues to Geo Swan after one of the James Salmon Collection images was deleted. Despite knowing of the URAA issue and the questions about authorship, Geo Swan continued to upload these images. World's Lamest Critic (talk) 02:41, 4 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: per nomination. --JuTa 17:28, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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