Commons:Deletion requests/File:Marisa Merz - Testa 2010 stamp of Liechtenstein.jpg
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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Permission reason isn't valid as stamps aren't means of payment. So this image is copyrighted. Adamant1 (talk) 13:18, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- I note that you nominated several stamps at the same time. Please merge the requests, as I assume there should be little substantial difference in the rationales for keeping or deleting.
- Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Liechtenstein#Stamps says that "The majority of Swiss copyright law commentaries does not consider stamps 'means of payment'. It is therefore likely that Liechtenstein stamps are protected by copyright as well." So your "aren't" is more correctly spelled out as "it is likely [they aren't]". I think this should be discussed on the talk page of the linked page rather than in individual deletion requests.
- Also, in Finland stamps were PD as the design was part of "a law, ordinance, international treaty or other official act" or "a decision [...] by public authorities" (nowadays the Finnish post is a normal company, although state-owned). Are the designs not decided on as decisions by public authorities in Liechtenstein? I see the Post is an "AG", but is it comparable to public authorities in this matter?
- –LPfi (talk) 14:50, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- Honestly, I find the distinction between "aren't" and "likely isn't" slightly pedantic since the point in what Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Liechtenstein#Stamps says is clearly that stamps of Liechtenstein aren't in the public domain or that there is at least enough ambiguity in the law that stamps from this country shouldn't be on commons until the law is definitive. From what I have seen any time a countries copyright is unclear Commons airs on the side of caution by deleting the files. To me it's like there's a 95% chance this file isn't in the public domain. At that point there's almost no chance the file won't be deleted. Outside of that, if you think it should be discussed then your free to have that discussion. It's not something I feel like doing though since I guidelines about it seem clear enough to me. Especially since this is a modern stamp and I can guarantee the artist of the sculpture is either still alive or just died. There's no freedom of panorama with stamps either. So the copyright of Liechtenstein stamps in general is really a moot point anyway. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:11, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- Just to update that, if it's the same artist I guess she died in 2019. So her work is still copyrighted. In some instances you might be able to argue a stamp is an original work if it has unique designs elements outside of the central image, but this one doesn't really have any. So I don't think that would fly as a keep reason. Same goes for the other images that I nominated for deletion. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:13, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- If you think the wording in that page is clear, why don't you keep to that wording? It does not say that such files shouldn't be on Commons, it says you shouldn't upload new ones because of the unclear situation. Whether the artist is alive or not is moot, nobody is arguing PD-old. The situation is more like an artist working for the US government. Let's see if there is somebody there to shed more light on the actual legal situation. –LPfi (talk) 17:35, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- Except like I said in situations where people shouldn't upload new files because of the unclear laws the current ones have been deleted to abide by the precautionary principle. It's not like if someone sued the Wikimedia Media Foundation they could argue it's fine they are hosting copyrighted material because at least they aren't allowing people to upload the images anymore. That's not how copyright law works. --Adamant1 (talk) 02:56, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
- If you think the wording in that page is clear, why don't you keep to that wording? It does not say that such files shouldn't be on Commons, it says you shouldn't upload new ones because of the unclear situation. Whether the artist is alive or not is moot, nobody is arguing PD-old. The situation is more like an artist working for the US government. Let's see if there is somebody there to shed more light on the actual legal situation. –LPfi (talk) 17:35, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- Just to update that, if it's the same artist I guess she died in 2019. So her work is still copyrighted. In some instances you might be able to argue a stamp is an original work if it has unique designs elements outside of the central image, but this one doesn't really have any. So I don't think that would fly as a keep reason. Same goes for the other images that I nominated for deletion. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:13, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
- Honestly, I find the distinction between "aren't" and "likely isn't" slightly pedantic since the point in what Commons:Copyright rules by territory/Liechtenstein#Stamps says is clearly that stamps of Liechtenstein aren't in the public domain or that there is at least enough ambiguity in the law that stamps from this country shouldn't be on commons until the law is definitive. From what I have seen any time a countries copyright is unclear Commons airs on the side of caution by deleting the files. To me it's like there's a 95% chance this file isn't in the public domain. At that point there's almost no chance the file won't be deleted. Outside of that, if you think it should be discussed then your free to have that discussion. It's not something I feel like doing though since I guidelines about it seem clear enough to me. Especially since this is a modern stamp and I can guarantee the artist of the sculpture is either still alive or just died. There's no freedom of panorama with stamps either. So the copyright of Liechtenstein stamps in general is really a moot point anyway. --Adamant1 (talk) 15:11, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
Deleted: per nomination. Artist it:Marisa Merz died in 2019, so the file can be restored in 2090. --Rosenzweig τ 17:47, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
