Commons:Deletion requests/File:Captured documents, Zawar Kili -b.jpg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:Captured documents, Zawar Kili -b.jpg

[edit]

Also File:Bin Laden Poster.jpeg and File:Bin Laden Poster2.jpeg.

Derivative work. There is no evidence the poster was designed in Afghanistan, that the photo of bin Laden was taken there and the twin towers photo in the background certainly wasn't taken there. --Liftarn (talk) 21:39, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep — I suspect the contributor who nominated this image means that the Navy photographer who took this snapshot of a poster of Osama bin Laden is violating Osama bin Laden's intellectual property rights. I am not sure I fully understand the rules on "derivative works". But I have participated in over a dozen discussions of the copyright status of images from Afghanistan. All these discussions have reached a consensus that images from Afghanistan are not protected by copyright. This comes up often enough that I have started suggesting the wikimedia foundation get an intellectual property lawyer to offer a professional opinion on this question. If images made in Afghanistan are not protected by copyright no one's intellectual property rights are being tread upon by this image. Geo Swan (talk) 23:09, 11 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • There are many issues here. The person who took the photo of UBL has a copyright on it. Then there is the background photo that someone has a copyright to. Then there is the various small images, but they look like clipart so that's probably not an issue. Then the person designing the poster has a copyright on it. That the photo was taken in Afghanistan does not reqire that the poster was designed or published there. // Liftarn (talk) 17:27, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • The person who took the photo was a GI -- an employee of the US Federal Government, who took the photo in performance of his or her duties. Such photos are always in the public domain. Geo Swan (talk) 21:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment The photo is public domain. But it is still a derivative work of the poster (which is clearly the subject of the picture). Even if we can be sure that is in the public domain it is itself a derivative work of the photo of Osama (and there's no reason to suspect that's anything other than copyrighted). Does anyone want to claim that the picture of bin Laden is de minimis in this final photograph? (That's not a rhetorical question). --Simonxag (talk) 10:45, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment A better version is now available File:Bin Laden Poster.jpeg 92.227.2.47 17:30, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I don't know about the technical legal jargon, but as this image is admitted to be clearly in the public domain both in the US and the country of origin for our purposes, I don't understand the fuss. I don't particularly care whether Al Qaeda infringed the original photographer's copyright (assuming he had one, since the picture was clearly taken in Afghanistan), or whether the US Navy infringed Al Qaeda's. RayAYang (talk) 14:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Last time I checked the WTC towers were in New York, not Afghanistan. Do you have information about the country of origin? It might very well be designed and printed in Pakistan for instance. We can't just ignore copyright because you don't like the person in the photo. // Liftarn (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Oh. I thought you were referring to the image of Bin Laden, which is clearly the most prominent portion of the poster. I'm completely prepared to say that the picture of the twin towers, being as it is to the side and mixed in with a cartoon drawing, is not terribly significant to the main creative message of this piece of propaganda. Certainty as to country of design and printing is kinda irrelevant here - as of the best of our information, it was published and distributed in Afghanistan, and that is the context in which it was found. RayAYang (talk) 01:23, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • I would say the country of origin is quite important. Otherwise you could just take any copyrighted image to Afghanistan, make a copy of it and claim it to be public domain. // Liftarn (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Only if you could plausibly claim it hadn't appeared elsewhere. I think you're asking for a level of proof that's not going to be possible to provide. The photo is Public Domain in the US, in Afghanistan (the apparent country of origin), and there appear for all practical purposes to be no legal impediment to its retention on Commons. If Al Qaeda chooses to file suit against Wikimedia, then we can revisit. RayAYang (talk) 22:42, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep – It would work better in the Osama bin Laden article than the entire poster. It is more concise than the entire poster. —Siddharth Patil (talk) 21:21, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep – I also don't understand the fuss. The U.S. government states where this image is from (see link), so why is there a reason to question the licensing. Isn't the US government the one who decided copyright law? Even if the Twin towers are shown, the government has stated that the work is from Afghanistan. The submitter describes where the image came from, how it was found and why it is public domain. I think it is more descriptive than a lot of images on Wikipedia that no one seems to think should be deleted. It contains all needed information and in some ways far exceeds the needed information and therefore qualifies under the current Afghanistan licensing and even other US government licensing that is not shown here. I have yet to read a reason that I agree with here as to why it shouldn’t be kept. ARTEST4ECHO (talk) 13:52, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK, let me reiterate and sum up the issue here. This picture has multiple layers of copyright issues.

  • The copyright of the photo. Taken by a US GI ao it's PD. No problem there.
  • The copyright of the poster. Unknown creator, may be under copyright.
  • The copyright of the bin Laden photo. Unknown creator, probably under copyright.
  • The copyright of the twin towers. Unknown creator, may be under copyright.
  • The plane images. Look like clipart. Probably not under copyright.

// Liftarn (talk) 23:28, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted by Shizhao: Dupe of Image:US Navy 020114-N-8242C-006 U.S. Navy SEALs find valuable intelligence in Afghanistan.jpg

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