Commons:Deletion requests/File:AmericanSaddlebredAward.png

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

File:AmericanSaddlebredAward.png

[edit]

per e.g. Commons:Deletion requests/File:Emmy Award.JPG. This is a 3D-award/artwork, and thereby copyrighted. Josve05a (talk) 02:29, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

SNOW KEEP - The award was given to me, therefore I own it, my name is on the award, and I shot and uploaded the photo. It also qualifies under fair use. It's as legal as a scan of a Rembrandt painting. Atsme 📞 02:49, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Let me break this down.
Josve05a (talk) 02:57, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I can get a copyright release from the American Saddlebred Horse Association. I may already have one at OTRS for a photograph of that same image. I will look in my files. At the very least, it would also qualify the same as the Oscar which is non-free art. Atsme 📞 03:01, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(Edit conflict)
  • en:File:Academy Award trophy.jpg is not allowed on Commons for just this reason. Hencey why it is uploaded locally on English Wikipedia under fair use.
  • If you can find an OTRS-ticket, please mention it here, so an agent can review it if it applies for this image and add it to the file.
Josve05a (talk) 03:07, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
comment - an image of the award shown on page 75 of the materials I submitted to permissions was licensed properly under Ticket#2016031510021735. Atsme 📞 03:05, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't checked that ticket, but if this award is included in the magazine without the 'Awards' permission, or without the awards artists permission, then the magazine may be violating copyright in this case, unless the image in the magazine is COM:DM (I may licnese a photo I take under cc - does not mean I'm allowed to license everything shown in that picture under a free license). But as I said, haven't checked the magazine or the ticket (yet). Josve05a (talk) 03:13, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The magazine is owned by the American Saddlebred Association, the award design was commissioned by the American Saddlebred Association who owns the rights to reproduce others if they so choose, and as far as that is concerned, I provided you with an OTRS Ticket # which includes emails from the copyright holders and they licensed the image of the award under CC-BY-SA 4.0 which is all that is required. I own the actual award pictured in the image but you can't have that - only a picture of it. Nothing more needs to be added or disclosed. Atsme 📞 05:47, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Quick link to ticket for OTRS agents. I have looked at the ticket and I would have to agree with Josve05a's analysis so far. I'm still trying to find a copy of the materials as they were not attached with the ticket. Right now, we need to know a few things. Was this a work for hire and is the copyright legally "corporately" owned or owned by the sculptor? If it is owned by the sculptor then the ticket is invalid and this would fall under "needs to be fair use" which means it can't be on Commons. That is fine. A quick transfer and filling out the fair-use rationale is easily done if necessary. If it is corporately owned, which corporate? The magazine or the award organization? If corporately owned the release sent in the ticket has to be from the correct corporate. Finally, if it is the correct corporate, is the image included on the pages listed in the ticket? Since the pages were not attached I can't confirm that right now but I am still searching. --Majora (talk) 03:31, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    I provided you with a ticket #, and see no reason for me to go through this drill again. You already made one overzealous claim thinking the :File:KanwalAmeen2.jpg image I uploaded was a copyvio, and now you're questioning another of my images. What's going on? Is there a target on my back, or what? When did it become part of OTSR's volunteer work to dig into the names of sculptors, quiz uploaders whether the award is corporately owned, etc.? Your only concern is whether or not the uploaded images were properly tagged with the right CC license, and in the case of both questioned images, they are ticketed and permissions has the emails. Your work here is done, and I've got work to do. If you still feel there's an issue, perhaps Yann might be able to help. The emails that were submitted by myself and the copyright holder of the American Saddlebred Horse award states specifically: "All copies including the images contained within are licensed for use per CC-BY-SA-4.0", which covers what you need to know - there are no copyvios here. Atsme 📞 04:36, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    You clearly do not understand the role of OTRS nor do you understand how your comment is exceedingly troubling. It matters if the photos are properly licensed. It matters if copyright is being honored. It matters if the release is given by someone who can actually release the photos. It matters so much more than what you think it does. Permissions is not a rubber stamp that allows you to upload whatever the hell you want as long as you send something in that claims rights. That is not how it works and that will never be how it works. As for a "target on you back" don't be melodramatic. I was asked to take a look. I looked. I gave my opinion. Nothing more. If you have work to do, please go and do it. This DR will continue with or without you. --Majora (talk) 04:46, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Atsme took the photo, what else is needed? Montanabw (talk) 05:36, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Montanabw: Since it is a 3D-artwork (just as a scupture) we need the artists permission, since they own the copyright of the object, otherwise it is a COM:DW-copvyio. Josve05a (talk) 09:48, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Josve05a please read the submission to permissions which clearly states - and I repeat what was said in my post above - "The emails that were submitted by myself and the copyright holder of the American Saddlebred Horse award states specifically: "All copies including the images contained within are licensed for use per CC-BY-SA-4.0", which covers what you need to know - there are no copyvios here." You have everything you need. Atsme 📞 19:36, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        • I, as an OTRS agent, will not comment publically on the content of that ticket. However, two OTRS-agents has said that that is not enough (see Majora's comment above). A photo may be freely licened, but the sculpute (award/3d-work) may still have copyright. Josve05a (talk) 19:38, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
          • I am aware of that. You are misreading what Atsme just said - she said that the copyright holder OF THE SCULPTURE also gave permission. Now if someone lost the OTRS ticket, or attachments, or scans of written permission, obviously we can't discuss that publicly, but it can be presumed that you can email the OTRS source (which I presume is Atsme) and double-check. If all copyright holders have granted permission, then it's golden. IF there is some limit, then you need to let the OTRS person know -- presumably so that if needed, they can port the image to en.wikipedia, which does allow images with some more limits than commons. Montanabw (talk) 21:28, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
            • No, Atmse quotes (which I will not confirm or deny) that all images in the ticket are freely licensed, that does not mean that the underlying copyright for the 3D-work in this image is free. Josve05a (talk) 21:39, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
              • The photographed images and tearsheets (see ticketed license which states including the images contained within specifically naming pg 75) have been properly released under CC-BY-SA 4.0 by the copyright holder of both the 2-D IMAGE of the award which includes the artwork and design of the physical award in my possession. This is not the same as a registered trademark like with the Oscar, nor is it about creating physical awards based on a single copyright release for a particular image of a particular award with my name on it. The release is for digital IMAGES of that award ONLY -Share: copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format and Adapt: remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially. I also granted license because my name is on the plate in the image and it is my award in my possession, and yes, that does mean something. All of the copyright holders involved have correctly granted a CC-BY-SA-4.0 license for the digital IMAGE of that award. I don't understand what part you don't comprehend about the IMAGE license. Perhaps you should contact legal to clear-up the confusion, and when you do, submit all of the documents we've provided. If somebody takes a picture of a DVD, and licenses that picture under CC-BY-SA 4.0, it does not grant anyone the right to reproduce whatever is on the DVD. Atsme 📞 23:34, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Also having read over the OTRS ticket, I don't have any issue with the permission released for image, I think that's been satisfied. However, per Commons:Freedom_of_panorama#United_States:
... any publication of an image of a copyrighted artwork thus is subject to the approval of the copyright holder of the artwork.
Atsme, you've said that the copyright holder of the images is also the copyright holder of the artwork in the award as well. If you'd like, I can reopen the ticket and e-mail the copyright holder and simply ask them to verify this, because I think the phrase including the images contained within can be interpreted a few ways. Let me know if you'd like me to start that conversation. I think a decision on deletion can probably wait until we get a response back on the matter. That said, if they are not the owner of the artwork, and there is no permission from the artist, Montanabw's suggestion of a non-free use rationale on en.wikipedia may be possible. I JethroBT (talk) 23:42, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I JethroBT, I already sent the copyright holder an email request before I read your comment here, but please do whatever you think is necessary to help get this issue resolved. I'm also ok with moving the image over to en.Wikipedia since it's specific to an article over there. Thank you! Atsme 📞 05:40, 6 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted: Per nom. OTRS-ticket invalid. --Natuur12 (talk) 22:22, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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