Commons:Deletion requests/File:Войно-Ясенецький Валентин Феліксович 1910.jpg

File:Войно-Ясенецький Валентин Феліксович 1910.jpg

As soon as the author is unknown, we cannot calculate 70 years post mortem. PereslavlFoto (talk) 23:49, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

This photograph was first published in 1909-1910 (so in the description of the post of the National Museum of Medicine of Ukraine, where a scan copy of this photograph was published in 2021). This is evidenced by the placement of the photograph on the passepartout, civilian clothes (since 1923, Voyno-Yasenetsky was ordained as a bishop of the church). Thus, more than 110 years have passed since the publication of the photo. The authorship of the photo could not be ascertained at this time. Thus, it is possible to say that this photo is not protected by copyright due to the expiration of the statute of limitations. For photographs of unknown authorship published before 1917, the copyright protection period is: in Ukraine - 70 years from publication (anonymous or pseudonymous work); in the USA - copyrights prior to 1929 have expired, not including copyrights on sound recordings fixed prior to 15 February 1972, covered only under state laws. It is similarly described in the article on copyright below the link:

Under the CDPA, the copyright for a work of unknown authorship expires 70 years after the end of the year in which the work was created (s.12(3)(a)), unless the work is made available to the public during that 70 year period in which case the copyright expires 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the work was first made available (s.12(3)(b)).

So, in the case of a photograph of unknown authorship appearing in a newspaper or magazine, copyright will expire 70 years from the end of the year in which the work was first published.

However an enormous number of photographs held in archives throughout the UK are likely to have been unpublished at the time of accession to the institution, whether they concern private, family, corporate or government collections. The majority of these works will not have been created for commercial purposes, but rather to document or record a particular moment in time. Where these works are of unknown authorship, copyright expires (or will have expired) 70 years from the end of the year in which the work was first created. Ronan Deazley and Kerry Patterson. COPYRIGHT IN PHOTOGRAPHS: DURATION.

--AMY (talk) 12:17, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

The Facebook post linked from Commons description page (Facebook post) has neither date, nor textual description. --PereslavlFoto (talk) 13:36, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

You were looking in the wrong place. (2). Фотопортрет. Войно-Ясенецький В.Ф. Приблизно 1909-1910 рр. AMY (talk) 15:08, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. So there is only possible date, something about 1909 or 1910 or somewhen else. The museum gives no evidence of exact date, no evidence of pre-1917 publication in Russian Empire. --PereslavlFoto (talk) 15:17, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

The fact of publication of the photograph is the date of production of the positive from the negative. Secondly, photographs of this format on a mat were distributed precisely until 1917. The photograph of the subject in civilian clothes indicates that it was taken before his transfer to service in the church, i.e. no later than 1923. AMY (talk) 12:08, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Production of the positive is not any publication. I have plenty of family photos that are positive prints, but they were not published. --PereslavlFoto (talk) 12:31, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

== I have plenty of family photos that are positive prints, but they were not published ==

A controversial statement. AMY (talk) 09:32, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

My parents never published these photos, never transferred it to unlimited range of people. --PereslavlFoto (talk) 21:13, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

I asked the museum for additional information about this photograph. On the back of the passe-partout it says "Photograph by S. Arons", Balashov ("Фотографія С. Аронсъ", г. Балашовъ). The text is written in pre-revolutionary orthography. The museum dates it 1909-1910. It was during these years that Voyno-Yasenetsky worked as a zemstvo doctor in Balashov district. The indication of the name of the photo studio (the owner's surname) does not give us the photographer's surname, so we can confirm with complete confidence that the publication date is 1910, the author of the photograph is unknown.--AMY (talk) 10:12, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

We need to prove that the image was published by photographer. Usually photographers do not publish and sell all the photographs for wide unlimited turnover. --PereslavlFoto (talk) 21:12, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Look again at the answer, if the work has not been published (for example, in a newspaper or magazine), and the author remains unknown, copyright expires (or will have expired) 70 years from the end of the year in which the work was first created. All works published prior to October Revolution (7 November 1917) are believed to be uncopyrighted. (Russia) AMY (talk) 07:04, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I think there is enough evidence to confirm pre-1917 publication, but wouldn't S. Arons be our photographer or lead to information about the owner of the studio who would usually be the photographer? Abzeronow (talk) 19:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The author is known. If the work was not published, we need to wait for 70 years from his death. If the death is unknown, we need to wait for 70 years from the unknown date. This means, we have to wait forever. You are right that the works published prior to October Revolution are not copyrighted. How can we prove this image was published by photographer? -- PereslavlFoto (talk) 19:43, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

The fact of publication of a photograph is the production of a positive photograph on paper from a negative. The positive (paper print) was made before 1917 and is stored in a museum. What other proof of publication is needed? Who, besides the photographer, could have printed the photograph on paper? AMY (talk) 11:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Positive photograph is usually passed to one client only, not published for unlimited customers. For example, all the photographs in your own album were not published. Many items stored in museums were not published by authors. This means, as soon as the authors' death is unknown, their copyright terms will lasts forever. The copyright term ends in 70 years after the author's death. If the death year is unknown — the copyright term will never end. --PereslavlFoto (talk) 12:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I we consider that a photograph by an unknown photographer is PD 70 years after creation, what is the definition of "unknown" photographer?

What if we asked literally everybody, and nobody knows who the photographer was, we assume that the photo is PD, and later we find out who the photographer was? Is the image still PD? --Krd 19:39, 28 November 2024 (UTC)