Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Hhof vault.jpg

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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.

Image:Hhof vault.jpg

[edit]

Same reason as Commons:Deletion requests/Image:Cricket World Cup trophy.png; in violation of Commons:Derivative works.--Thugchildz 07:57, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

 Delete per nom.--Thugchildz 23:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep In Canada, where the photograph was taken, "it is not an infringement of copyright for any person to reproduce, in a painting, drawing, engraving, photograph or cinematographic work a sculpture or work of artistic craftsmanship or a cast or model of a sculpture or work of artistic craftsmanship, that is permanently situated in a public place or building". [1] The trophies are on permanent display in the Great Hall of the Hockey Hall of Fame, a public place. -Aude (talk | contribs) 14:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It is neither permanently situated there nor is the museum a public place.--Thugchildz 07:32, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Copyright Act doesn't define "public place", but it's defined and interpreted elsewhere in Canadian law, such as "The law recognizes private businesses as public places if they are open to members of the public, even though only persons with an interest in the goods and services of that store actually enter." [2] Similar laws in other countries, such as New Zealand, expressly define public place to include "premises open to the public." [3] And the trophy is on permanent exhibit there. Also, in this case, the Stanley Cup maker, not company, is unknown we have to go with the purchasers age. Frederick Stanley, 16th Earl of Derby the purchase of the Cup died in 1908 which is 100+ years ago. So, the copyright has expired (perhaps true with some of the other trophies) anyway as far as "derivative works" is concerned. Nonetheless, to be very clear on this and stay away from grey areas, I am seeking permission to allow these photographs to remain here under GFDL or compatable licenses. They expressly permit photography at the HHOF [4], so I think it's very likely that they would give permission. -Aude (talk | contribs) 16:07, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep. I'm not comfortable enough with this reasoning, too much of a grey area. Same with the "drinking vessel" argument. The best argument I see is that the original Cup was created in 1892, and Lord Stanley died in 1908. The copyright on the original cup (in the bank vault) has thus expired, though the cup might still be subject to {{Trademark}}. I think the fact that I contacted the NHL to get permission (and tthey are unwilling to allow the images to be licensed as GFDL) is irrelevant in this case, due to the age of the cup. I am confident enough that copyright does not apply in this case; thus, I think we can still keep the image. -Aude (talk | contribs) 16:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They permit photography in a lot of places, doesn't mean that it takes the copyright off the copyrighted work that is there. And does it say anywhere that its on permanent exhibit there and that it doesn't have a copyright?--Thugchildz 04:48, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

 Keep merely some industrial product, nothing wrong with pictures (drinking vessel → industrial machine made utility article → not copyrighted) --LimoWreck 22:36, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If it was merely some industrial product than no one would be interest in it like this and I do not think that counts as a drinking vessel, from dictionary.com- drinking vessel noun a vessel intended for drinking and this isn't intended for drinking and per Commons:Derivative works- Photographs of three-dimensional objects are always copyrighted. Even if the object itself is in the public domain. If you didn't take the photograph yourself, you need permission from the owner of the photographic copyright (unless of course the photograph itself is in the public domain). And the photograph can not be public domain because By taking a picture, you create a new, copyrighted work (i.e. the photograph). At the same time, the rights of the original still exists and don't go away. By publishing the picture, you do something only the original copyright holder is allowed to do. That's why you won't be able to use your own photography of a copyrighted work (except as fair use) unless the creator of the original gave you permission to do so. It must be deleted.--Thugchildz 03:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also the bottom trophy clearly isn't a drinking vessel so it should be deleted just for that.--Thugchildz 03:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
COM:DW#Isn.27t_every_product_copyrighted_by_someone.3F_What_about_cars.3F_Or_kitchen_chairs.3F_My_computer_case.3F --LimoWreck 17:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And what was the point of that? This clearly doesn't fall into any of that and is quality art work in a 3d object.--THUGCHILDz 02:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Withdraw nomination- Top is a drinking vessel, since it was created with the possibility to be able to drink from it, it was intended somewhat for drinking. Although, I would like the bottom to be cropped out.--THUGCHILDz 02:41, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, at least for now. The trophy appears to be a permanent exhibit at the museum (it has its own permanent case) and falls within Canada's FOP provisions. It's not relevant whether the museum is willing to license the image or not as the FOP provisions mean it does not own any copyright in it. The image may not be free in the US, though, so may need to be deleted later if the WMF Board decides that all FOP images must comply with both local and US practice. --MichaelMaggs 15:25, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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