Commons:Deletion requests/Category:Propaganda cartoons
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This deletion discussion is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive. You can read the deletion policy or ask a question at the Village pump. If the circumstances surrounding this file have changed in a notable manner, you may re-nominate this file or ask for it to be undeleted.
Hopelessly political. See Category talk:Propaganda cartoons. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:41, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
- Comment. See en:Category:Cartoonists by nationality. Let us not start constant edit wars trying to categorize cartoons according to political views. --Timeshifter (talk) 07:04, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
- Later note. As of January 7, 2010 (see my comment farther down) I suggested renaming this category rather than deleting it. I put up a {{Move}} tag on the category page March 10, 2010 (see another comment of mine farther down). --Timeshifter (talk) 12:08, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Delete Subjective categorization. /Pieter Kuiper (talk) 09:07, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
- Delete as the inclusion criteria is so vague that it boils down to "a carton I don't like". We should also have stricter inclusion criteria for the parent category to avoid the content from just being moved up. // Liftarn (talk) 11:41, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Keep A very important category. If there is disagreement than it should be discussed. This is like throwing the water with the baby. Kooritza (talk) 12:54, 29 December 2009 (UTC)- Keep Very clear criteria spelled out at Category talk:Propaganda cartoons#Criteria for inclusion. According to Liftarn and Pieter Kuiper (PK-L) there should be no Category:Propaganda either, as the criteria for inclusion into Category:Propaganda cartoonst is the same as Category:Propaganda, except that the file must be a cartoon or caricature, and not a poster, photo, text, or audiovisual media. This, to me, is a clear case of "I don't like this category, even though I have no valid reason, so I will nominate it for deletion." on the part of PK-L. The onus should be on PK-L to show why this is less clear than Category:Propaganda and why that is considered acceptable and this not. Furthermore, the onus is on PK-L to explain why this nomination should not be considered a form of disruptive editing, especially as Liftarn was the one who submitted this idea on my talk page. -- Avi (talk) 15:43, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
- I believe trying to classify anything other than obvious government propaganda is too subjective. History decides these things. I put a move tag on Category:Propaganda. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
- That is still not a reason to delete this category—just a reason to restrict what goes into the category. -- Avi (talk) 00:16, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Rename . OK. Then I suggest restricting it by changing the name to Category:Government propaganda cartoons. We already have Category:Political cartoons. --Timeshifter (talk) 09:45, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
- With the move of the parent category, that makes sense. -- Avi (talk) 14:02, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
- That is still not a reason to delete this category—just a reason to restrict what goes into the category. -- Avi (talk) 00:16, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
- I believe trying to classify anything other than obvious government propaganda is too subjective. History decides these things. I put a move tag on Category:Propaganda. --Timeshifter (talk) 23:33, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Comment The discussion here Category_talk:Propaganda_cartoons#Criteria_for_inclusion is very revealing, I believe. -- Avi (talk) 18:31, 29 December 2009 (UTC)- Keep Political or propaganda cartoons are important genre of drawing, this kind of cartoons have educational value. --Beroesz (talk) 23:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
- We already have Category:Political cartoons. So why do we need this category? Are we going to put all racist and bigoted cartoons in Category:Propaganda cartoons? All cartoons for going to war? Category:Propaganda is for obvious government propaganda. It isn't really propaganda unless the government does it. Only a government has the additional ability to effectively block most or nearly all disagreeing opinions. Or overwhelm all other media by increasing the volume of the government media. And by the self-censorship of private media, especially during times of war, or buildup to war. That is what really turns government media, press, and graphics into propaganda. Are we going to put in all the private-media cartoons that used words like "gook" during the Vietnam War. What about cartoons using "towelhead" and "raghead" during the Gulf War, Iraq War, and Afghanistan War. What about the many hate-filled cartoons on major web sites such as Free Republic, Fox News, etc.. What about cartoons using code-word racism? What about cartoons used as tools in these types of efforts: en:Spin (public relations), en:Media manipulation, en:Framing (social sciences), en:Fear mongering, code word racism, en:Smear campaign, en:Attack ad, en:Managing the news, en:Gatekeeping (communication), en:Bandwagon effect, en:Disinformation, en:Flag-waving, en:Scapegoating. It all comes down to strong differences of opinion. Propaganda is when the government backs up one of those opinions, and intimidates differing opinions. --Timeshifter (talk) 11:18, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
- Let's than make sure (by using inclusion criteria and enforcing them) that only actual government propaganda gets included in the category. Otherwise it will just be a trash heap of cartoons someone objects to. // Liftarn (talk) 22:04, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
- We already have Category:Political cartoons. So why do we need this category? Are we going to put all racist and bigoted cartoons in Category:Propaganda cartoons? All cartoons for going to war? Category:Propaganda is for obvious government propaganda. It isn't really propaganda unless the government does it. Only a government has the additional ability to effectively block most or nearly all disagreeing opinions. Or overwhelm all other media by increasing the volume of the government media. And by the self-censorship of private media, especially during times of war, or buildup to war. That is what really turns government media, press, and graphics into propaganda. Are we going to put in all the private-media cartoons that used words like "gook" during the Vietnam War. What about cartoons using "towelhead" and "raghead" during the Gulf War, Iraq War, and Afghanistan War. What about the many hate-filled cartoons on major web sites such as Free Republic, Fox News, etc.. What about cartoons using code-word racism? What about cartoons used as tools in these types of efforts: en:Spin (public relations), en:Media manipulation, en:Framing (social sciences), en:Fear mongering, code word racism, en:Smear campaign, en:Attack ad, en:Managing the news, en:Gatekeeping (communication), en:Bandwagon effect, en:Disinformation, en:Flag-waving, en:Scapegoating. It all comes down to strong differences of opinion. Propaganda is when the government backs up one of those opinions, and intimidates differing opinions. --Timeshifter (talk) 11:18, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
- Let us wait until the discussion is closed; I do not believe that there is any consensus just yet to change the focus of Category:Propaganda to governmental only. I agree that this category should follow whatever Category:Propaganda is, as this is just a proper subset containing cartoons. -- Avi (talk) 22:17, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
- Category:Propaganda has been changed to Category:Government propaganda. --Timeshifter (talk) 17:28, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
- Rename . Otherwise it's way too subjective. The history books tell me this is propaganda, but it doesn't say that anyone's political opinion you disagree with is propaganda. The classification of being cartoons is useful though so I don't support deletion. Rocket000 (talk) 22:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
- Move discussion started. I put up a {{Move}} tag at Category:Propaganda cartoons, and linked to this discussion. It seems that the rough consensus here is to rename this category rather than to delete it. --Timeshifter (talk) 12:03, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Closed, already renamed, no reason to delete redirect. Kameraad Pjotr 18:42, 27 April 2010 (UTC)