Commons:Categories for discussion/2014/01/Category:V-sign
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This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.
This hand gesture has two meanings -- "V for victory", or "Peace". I suggest this category should have two sub-categories, one for each meaning. For many of these images we can tell the meaning from the context Images where the meaning remains unclear should remain in this, the parent category. 
Comment I don't know what this category looked like in the past, but it has since been subdivided into:
I read that "palm-out" means "Peace" and "palm-in" means Victory. But the images we have contradict that. Geo Swan (talk) 03:26, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: I'm not sure it would be that easy to assume the purpose in most cases. And there is actually a third meaning: Palm-in, knuckles-out (Category:Reverse V sign) has traditionally been about as rude as the middle finger in several countries. (See, for example, [1].) When Winston Churchill started using a hand sign to support the "V for Victory" movement, he supposedly switched palm direction after someone explained to him how other social classes viewed the direction the knuckles were pointing. (See V sign#The V for Victory campaign and the victory-freedom sign.) If there was a "V-sign by purpose" split, this would have to be considered, particularly since some non-Commonwealth people tend to make the peace sign in both directions, but (I assume) a Brit or Aussie wouldn't do this without intending a double meaning. Someone British or maybe Australian users can probably explain this further. --Closeapple (talk) 04:17, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
- Disagree with the proposed category split. It is often unclear what is meant, and we can't and shouldn't assume a meaning. Also, the distinction between palm-in and palm-out is not universal. --P 1 9 9 ✉ 14:13, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: I haven't seen a proposed category split only a pretty good suggestion for two (or more?) subcategories. The peace sign has never been called the V-sign, except by people who don't know what they are talking about. I have never used the V-sign. The peace sign - always palm toward viewer - has however been a considerable part of my life since 1968. What's urgently missing here, if this is to remain without said subcategories, is an introductory text. Now, there is no reference at all to the peace sign. To complicate matters there is another type of peace sign, often worn as jewelry on a necklace.
- Write a brief category introduction immediately which includes the various uses of a V-sign.
- Make a main Category:Symbols of peace
- Make two subcategories: a. Hand signals for peace (Peace sign) and b. Images for peace
- Under a. make subcategory V-sign (peace) with palm out
- Under b. make subcategories such as Peace jewelry, Peace symbols in other art
- Sort all the pertinant images under these categories
- Name change the current category - with the images that are left - to V-sign (victory) with palm in and place a referral at the top also see Category:V-sign (peace) with palm out
- Suggesting that we split it into V-sign (palm in) and V-sign (palm out) with possible subcats for each separate meaning. V-signs are considered vulgar in parts of the world. --Pitke (talk) 18:01, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
- Comment As it happens, I found this discussion when trying to search for a "peace sign" category, which is I think by far the most widely known of the various meanings of that gesture (by the way, another which no one seems to have considered yet is the "deuce sign" that rappers have been seen to use). However, of all the meanings, "V-sign" I think is the best description of them and should remain the category name as it can cover them all. My only suggestion would be: keep everything as it is, but include the aforementioned introductory text and also create a {{category redirect}} from "peace sign" and "deuce sign" to aid people searching. -- OlEnglish (talk) 03:56, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Comment I don't know what this category looked like in the past, but it has since been subdivided into:
- Category:V-sign in art
- Category:Bunny ears (gesture) (v-sign behind someone's head)
- Category:Double V-sign (one person making the v-sign with both hands)
- Category:Group V-sign (more than one person making the v-sign)
- Category:High V-sign (with arm extended)
- Category:Reverse V sign (with palm in)
- Category:Right-angled V-sign (with hand turned sideways)
@Geo Swan, Closeapple, P199, Sergewoodzing, and Pitke: @OlEnglish and Themightyquill: The listed sub-categories all seem to have been created in the meantime, so all that appears to be done now is for the sorting of the remaining images in the main category. Closing and archiving this discussion. Josh (talk) 20:26, 5 January 2019 (UTC)